Somebody submitted a template again

PortymanPortyman Member, PRO Posts: 409
edited November -1 in Working with GS (Mac)
Someone just submitted darrens template without changing a thing......

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/build-it/id421837420?mt=8
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Comments

  • DreamLabDreamLab Member Posts: 2,127
    thats been there lol. check darrens template thread. haha. but nice catch.
    dL
  • ScootsScoots Member Posts: 507
    oh boy, that's the only problem with polished templates.

    EDIT: got one star and a Horrible not worth a 1.00
  • expired_012expired_012 Member Posts: 1,802
    Yup some1 also published his cats vs ninja template exactly as it as. They also named it cats vs ninja lol.
  • calvin9403calvin9403 Member Posts: 3,186
    darren should put sample in the game like TSB
  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef Posts: 9,934
    He says you can use the art how you like. This really only sucks for everyone else who paid for the template and art.
  • JuggerJugger Member, PRO Posts: 238
    :(
  • calvin9403calvin9403 Member Posts: 3,186
    tshirtbooth said:
    Wow, i just dont understand some people.

    :(

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    ya, darren sell that template for 30
    he /she is trying to get 43 downloads
    don't buy his/her game!!!!!!!
  • JoeMeisterJoeMeister Member Posts: 602
    tenrdrmer said:
    He says you can use the art how you like. This really only sucks for everyone else who paid for the template and art.

    Yes, Darren clearly states that you can use the art as you like. His choice.
    So don't attack the Guy who is actually doing it.

    I just bought the RoboSnake template a couple of days ago.
    Added new background music, added explosion animation, added enemies and
    added a Pause screen. I left most of Darrens Art untouched.
    I am working on my own game for month now (I really just have time on weekends do
    to regular day job) and probably need another 2 month or so.

    I bought the template for two reasons:
    1. Learning more difficult stuff to do in GS. (Darren's template are priceless for that reason alone.)
    2. To conduct a little test about buying a template, modifying it slightly, and see if you (I) could make a Buck in the process. (I will keep everybody updated on that.)

    I also liked the template so much that I will spend more time this coming weekend to really modify
    it with additional levels, a menu screen and whatever else comes to mind.

    Cheers
  • scitunesscitunes Member, Sous Chef Posts: 4,047
    I really wish that people who make templates would use watermarked graphics or just really bad graphics. They could make a video for the marketplace with good graphics and then put crappy ones in the file the send.
  • StusAppsStusApps Member, PRO Posts: 1,352
    Yeah it'd be easy to batch watermark all the graphics from the project file.
  • calvin9403calvin9403 Member Posts: 3,186
    TSB use sample so you can't use them
  • debugdesigndebugdesign Member Posts: 886
    or use the good graphics for the promotion and video but then batch process the graphics in black & white and add a blur so you can still see what it is but any exported game would look low quality.

    I know its Darren's choice but soon people might stop buying the templates because 10 copies of the same game will be out in a week so the market will be saturated.
  • JoeMeisterJoeMeister Member Posts: 602
    It's Business. Here is another example submitted by tenrdrmer:

    ... created by DreamLab and that art is yours to use how you like once you have purchased the template.

    It is each Individuals choice how and why they want to sell their works.

    Now get back to creating Apps and Games.
  • simo103simo103 Member, PRO Posts: 1,331
    JoeMeister said:
    It is each Individuals choice how and why they want to sell their works.

    Now get back to creating Apps and Games.

    I think there're fair comments .. good feedback to template sellers if people stop buying because of this. Better than people saying nothing I think.
  • StusAppsStusApps Member, PRO Posts: 1,352
    Maybe just a difference of opinion, but I feel templates should be something to build a new game from. Quick rehash or even just straight to publishing is a bit cheeky when we have quite a small community. I guess that's why people don't announce them on the forum, they know it's a bit crappy and what people will say. Of course it's business and all that, but for some people conscience comes into their business decisions.
  • DhondonDhondon Member Posts: 717
    It's lazy people like this thats going to sink the AppStore. Reminds me what happened to the Atari. The market was flooded with bad/uninspired games, so the customers lost interest. History repeating. What happened to Apples quality control they announced? (not aimed at this template, graphics looks great)
  • SparkyidrSparkyidr Member, PRO Posts: 2,033
    This is the problem template designers have to face.

    Don't make the template look slick enough, and people won't buy it
    Make it look slick and nice and be almost a full game, and people will be tempted to just publish as-is

    The fact is, that was/is a great template (my next game uses a lot of gameplay elements from it in fact).

    You have to hope that the re-published templates will sink off the face of the appstore, and let the more involved games come to the top.....but who knows, we have seen some very accomplished games sink without a trace in recent times.

    As for apple quality control.....who's to say what's good and what's bad. Some people think doodle jump, angry birds, tiny wings...are dull boring games, but others (lots of others) think they are the best games ever.
    Plus...it probably wouldn't have made a difference in this case, as the template/game....is just good anyway.
  • butterbeanbutterbean Member Posts: 4,315
    It's sad that people publish the templates as is, when they could at least TRY to put in an effort.

    At the end of the day though, a good game will rise to the top, and stay there, whereas a game that looks like it has minimal effort, people will see right through it and not purchase.
  • AquariusAquarius Member Posts: 282
    this is the issues with templates. lazy ppl just wanna make a quick buck.

    maybe templates creators should start using shapes instead of actual characters.. but then again someone will prolly submit the templates as is lol
  • ChaserChaser Member Posts: 1,453
    I think templates are a great help for some but let's get original and name it differently I'm mean come on "build it!" and "build it up". Are we going to have build it #89 and build it up 47!
  • JohnPapiomitisJohnPapiomitis Member Posts: 6,256
    JoeMeister said:
    Yes, Darren clearly states that you can use the art as you like. His choice.
    So don't attack the Guy who is actually doing it.

    I just bought the RoboSnake template a couple of days ago.
    Added new background music, added explosion animation, added enemies and
    added a Pause screen. I left most of Darrens Art untouched.
    I am working on my own game for month now (I really just have time on weekends do
    to regular day job) and probably need another 2 month or so.

    I bought the template for two reasons:
    1. Learning more difficult stuff to do in GS. (Darren's template are priceless for that reason alone.)
    2. To conduct a little test about buying a template, modifying it slightly, and see if you (I) could make a Buck in the process. (I will keep everybody updated on that.)

    I also liked the template so much that I will spend more time this coming weekend to really modify
    it with additional levels, a menu screen and whatever else comes to mind.

    Cheers

    Sure theres that little loophole you can use the art however you like, thats mainly so if you need a box picture or somethign you can grab it from the template,not to leave most the art the same.

    No offense but if your submitting the template with mostly all his art the same, thats being lazy trying to make a quick buck.
  • hoodwinkedfoolhoodwinkedfool Member Posts: 30
    The runner template that darren gave away free has just colored boxes, you supply the graphics and sound. I replaced the boxes with my graphics and tweaked the gameplay some. Mostly though I used it to learn how to do some advanced things I would've never figured out otherwise.
  • DizkoDizko Member Posts: 498
    This is why I'm staying far away from templates in general.
  • quantumsheepquantumsheep Member Posts: 8,188
    StusApps said:
    Maybe just a difference of opinion, but I feel templates should be something to build a new game from. Quick rehash or even just straight to publishing is a bit cheeky when we have quite a small community. I guess that's why people don't announce them on the forum, they know it's a bit crappy and what people will say. Of course it's business and all that, but for some people conscience comes into their business decisions.

    Gotta agree, Stu. I wish you'd post more. You seem to be able to get to the crux of the issues far better than I ever could!
    dhondon said:
    It's lazy people like this thats going to sink the AppStore. Reminds me what happened to the Atari. The market was flooded with bad/uninspired games, so the customers lost interest. History repeating. What happened to Apples quality control they announced? (not aimed at this template, graphics looks great)

    This is actually something I've been thinking for a long, long time, along with a few others. My mate Jake, on the other hand, suggests that it *won't* all collapse because games are so disposable. You play a $.99 game for a minute, find it's rubbish, then move on. It's hardly the extortionate prices that was being charged for software in the Atari days (or indeed today!) on home consoles!

    However, I can't personally see how we can continue selling shovelware. Pretty soon you'll get the audience sticking to the names they know.
    Sparkyidr said:
    This is the problem template designers have to face.

    Don't make the template look slick enough, and people won't buy it
    Make it look slick and nice and be almost a full game, and people will be tempted to just publish as-is

    The fact is, that was/is a great template (my next game uses a lot of gameplay elements from it in fact).

    You have to hope that the re-published templates will sink off the face of the appstore, and let the more involved games come to the top.....but who knows, we have seen some very accomplished games sink without a trace in recent times.

    I think a few people have discovered that just posting here about upcoming template games gets little interest from the community, mainly because people can *see* that it's just a template with minimal effort put in.

    Having said that, someone mentioned to me that *my* running game looked no different to those made with a template. I really hope that people can see past that and that it's a success, just to prove there's an advantage to putting some effort into something! We'll see! :P

    Now my own rant:

    There used to be a time, when you had to *learn* how to use GameSalad before you could make a buck. This was good. This required investment from the game maker into the software.

    Now all you have to do, literally, is:

    1.Download GameSalad
    2.Download Template
    3.Publish

    That's it! (and what the guys who publish templates to the app store essentially do!)

    So you make games that you're not really interested in, with a minimal of effort, and probably no way of knowing how to look for bugs22 let alone fix them. Because you have no idea of how the game *works*

    I remember some guy here posting: "Got a template - how do I change the background image?"

    Sheeesh!

    I wish people would look at the 'Tiny Wings' thread here ( http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=18440#post-140230 ) more.

    I wish it was stickied.

    Because that guy has made more money than ALL of us here combined, and he did it on his first attempt with an original and highly polished game.

    Now - big surprise - there's a template for it, and people are interested!

    Sure, look at what's successful. But trying to emulate that success using templates will not make you rich. It'll make the template makers rich, for sure, but you won't have a 'Tiny Wings' hit using a template!

    Here's a shameless plug:

    http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=18575

    That's my latest game, Air Supply. I started it before all these templates came out, because I *wanted* to make a running game! I love the genre!

    I was expecting a lot of 'what template did you use?' questions so I'll answer that here.

    It actually uses two.

    You might be thinking now that I bought Hachiko's running template and merged it with Darren's one. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    I got the double jump from Darren's platform template, and the recycled bullets from his shooter template. And that's it. I took two things I wasn't sure how to do from them, and made something completely different with it.

    This is how templates *should* be used, in my opinion. Not to just swap out the graphics (or not even do that!) and then publish!

    I would say that this reflects really badly on the community. But very, very soon, there'll be some changes which will mean that pro users won't mind so much and you lot can carry on making a quick buck releasing shovelware!

    So, good guys: Grin and bear it - it's going to get a lot better very soon!

    QS :D
  • butterbeanbutterbean Member Posts: 4,315
    Very well said QS! I think your game is a shining example of what you can do with a running game. You made it your own, and it's a fabulous game that I couldn't put down. It truly stands out, and is remarkable in every way.

    This is what people need to start thinking about. Stop trying to emulate other games, make something your own!
  • DrGlickertDrGlickert Member Posts: 1,135
    When purchasing templates, do template makers have the purchaser sign anything? If I made a template and offered it for sale, I would expect the purchaser to sign a document stating that they would not use the artwork and that all sales of the game un-edited would be sole property of me (the seller of the template). I would also expect the user to understand that the template is not to be sold under any circumstances because it's just that, a template... but that's just me.
  • BramHoddssdBramHoddssd Member Posts: 414
    I mentioned this somewhere else but i'm gonna repeat it. I SERIOUSLY think that when someone wants to publish a game with GS, it goes through the GS team first so they can make sure its not just crap or a rip off of another template. That way we'd have a WAY better reputation!
  • SparkyidrSparkyidr Member, PRO Posts: 2,033
    BramHoskin said:
    I mentioned this somewhere else but i'm gonna repeat it. I SERIOUSLY think that when someone wants to publish a game with GS, it goes through the GS team first so they can make sure its not just crap or a rip off of another template. That way we'd have a WAY better reputation!

    You'll get lynched round these parts for talk like that ;o) GameSalad direct memories come flooding back.

    @qs
    nice post fella.

    I think I am in a different position to most here in that, I have just used a template for a game I am doing...and I have also sold my own templates here.

    On saying that I "used" a template though...I probably did it in a different way to how most people would.
    I looked at the templates, and then re-made the bits that I wanted in a new project, and ignored the bits I didn't care about.
    THAT'S the way I wish most people would use them...as it makes you understand what's happening just because you are re-creating what is in the template, rather then chucking some new graphics in it, and bosh...done!

    As for selling templates...meh. I guess mine are not really the same as a lot of others here. There is no real way you could take one of my templates and just re-skin and publish. I would hope they make the buyer delve a bit deeper into what is going on.

    On a related note.....the marketplace appears to be filling up with templates that, lets be honest about it here, it seems no one wants.
    Selling a template for $2!!!!! is not only a pointless exercise if you want to make any money, but also has the effect of de-valuing everyone elses templates in a roundabout way. Also, depending on how much time and effeor you spent making the template, you are devaluing your self and your own efforts. (I personally, will never change the prices of any templates I make. If people want them, they will buy them...if they don't, they won't, no matter how cheap you discount them to)

    [the above is not really aimed at any one in particular btw...just a general rant about what I feel when I click on the market place at the mo]

    now.....if GS were to implement a PROPER marketplace...where maybe they took a cut....which was structured, and an all round nice e-commerce experience...things might change.
  • DrGlickertDrGlickert Member Posts: 1,135
    BramHoskin said:
    I mentioned this somewhere else but i'm gonna repeat it. I SERIOUSLY think that when someone wants to publish a game with GS, it goes through the GS team first so they can make sure its not just crap or a rip off of another template. That way we'd have a WAY better reputation!

    It's not GS' place to determine what is "crap" and what isn't. The Fart Machine had a TON of sales and it's just a button you press that randomly makes fart noises. Is that a crappy app? In my opinion, yes, in the thousands of adolescent teens/tweens it's the coolest thing they've ever spent a buck on.

    Now, my next point is purely an assumption, but I seriously doubt they play every single game that's released with GS. They have enough on their plate with trying to figure out how to get GS from beta to version 1.0. They don't have time to sit there and determine if you stole an idea or are simply uploading a template.
  • GamersRejoiceGamersRejoice Member Posts: 817
    "No sir, I don't like it."

    I think one of the main reasons this is a problem is that people are selling the artwork along with the template. I like what tshirtbooth did with his zombie drop template. He watermarked all of the artwork. This forces the person who bought the template to at least make new graphics and if they don't. It'll have a lot harder of a time actually getting approved due to the watermarks.
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