quantumsheep said:I would say that this reflects really badly on the community. But very, very soon, there'll be some changes which will mean that pro users won't mind so much and you lot can carry on making a quick buck releasing shovelware!
DrGlickert said: what is shovelware? not sure what that means...
Shovelware is the lowest common denominator. It's 'crap', for want of a better word (as you shovel !@#$%, typically, and there's a lot of it!).
What I'm saying is that those that want to just publish template games without any effort (not even changing the graphics!) are essentially making shovelware.
quantumsheep said: Of course I do. I'm from the future.
QS, your view of time is too linear.
quantumsheep said: Your concept of time is far too linear! The game is out soon, but was no.1 last week!
From some of the responses on Touch Arcade, I get the impression that people like the look of the game, but are getting a little tired of endless runners...
That's cool. I kinda get where they're coming from, but I hope people will give it a chance as the air constantly going down is kinda new I think - and it does look and sound different to most games in the genre!
We'll see what happens soon enough. On a personal note, I put down money I don't have for a Nintendo 3DS - it'd be lovely if I make at least some money to put towards that!
This is actually something I've been thinking for a long, long time, along with a few others. My mate Jake, on the other hand, suggests that it *won't* all collapse because games are so disposable. You play a $.99 game for a minute, find it's rubbish, then move on. It's hardly the extortionate prices that was being charged for software in the Atari days (or indeed today!) on home consoles!
However, I can't personally see how we can continue selling shovelware. Pretty soon you'll get the audience sticking to the names they know.
Well, that's not *quite* what I said Certainly the comparatively low price point for apps reduces consumer perceived risk when purchasing, hence they are more inclined to take a punt on a greater number of apps, but that isn't the reason why I'm not so worried about a torrent of cruddy apps potentially sinking the market. Rather, I believe that really good, innovative games will generally float to the surface.
Of course, some rubbish games will become successful, whether due to the madness of crowds, canny marketing or alien mind rays, and unfortunately a few awesome ones will slip through the net, but the quality across the board keeps improving, and the means of finding apps that appeal to you grows due to the huge number of blogs and review sites keeping their eyes peeled for the diamonds in the dung. Just compare the quality of the top games on the app store from a couple of years ago to what's out there now.
What's most exciting is that the variety of game types on the iOS platforms is constantly growing, compared to the console market say, where genre diversity has pretty much stagnated - another dystopian near future FPS anyone?
How can quantum make a statement referring to a bbetter time in the future for pro users and not expand. That's like apple announcing a new iPad with no details , but rather saying it will be magical... Please expand...
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
I was gonna stay outta the right or wrong part of the argument but someone quoted one of my listings si I guess i'll explain my reasonings and give my 2¢.
First I think is bad to provide a Game Template with full artwork. By selling that art to a bunch of people you are guaranteeing that more than one will buy it for the art but only the first one will get to submit an original version.
Now menus and such are a bit different IMO. the menu art will not provide enough to cover an entire game. which forces the user to put effort in the art for the game still and if the menu art doesn't go with the game then you will prob find your self changing some of that too.
In my menu the Stacks Level Selection Template. the art is included but its art that can be used in more than one game without making it obvious its the same. and there is certainly not enough there to do an entire game but the art is good enough to be used if needed.
I haven't ever bought a template but I am using a free template on on game now except I have already looked at how it all worked and have changed nearly everything making it my own work. now the only thing left from the original is some HUD layout and the core game type. oh and some of the template art for place holders of course until some good new art is brought in. But thats the point in a template.
And while we're on the rant of selling full game templates it irks me even more to see a game that is currently on the app store, be offered up as a "template" I mean really? do you not think that people are going to buy it and if the art is not watermarked turn right around and upload it? other wise they will just swap out art files and submit.
LOL well I didn't want to get into this big of a rant so im out.
Aaron
___________________________________________________________________________________ GS BubbleBall Template HERE!! Stacks Level Selection Template HERE!! AppSolute Entertainment on Facebook
portyman said: How can quantum make a statement referring to a bbetter time in the future for pro users and not expand. That's like apple announcing a new iPad with no details , but rather saying it will be magical... Please expand...
I've been expanding since 1998, thanks. I'll stop here.
To be fair, I shouldn't have mentioned anything. But you'll find out soon enough. Giving the details is not my job.
Yeah. I don't think sous chefs like Quantumsheep (WHAT? HE HAS A TITLE NOW?) are allowed to give much information to the community about new releases they have BETA forms of. It's not really his fault.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
DrGlickert said: what is shovelware? not sure what that means...
Shovelware means publishing anything and everything you can get through apple.
The concept is make money from volume. if you submit one really good app there is actually a chance that you will make little sales we'll pick a number say 100. that app may have taken a few months to create. Now shovelware you create 100 apps over a week or two and they really suck but they may function enough for apples approval so now you have 100 apps that may get 1-10 sales each before disappearing. so your two weeks of crap gained you 100-1000 sales when your two months of hard work gained you only 100.
Well a template seller can always make a license agreement to all the buyers saying that the templates graphics can't be used for a commercial version of the template.
BramHoskin said: I mentioned this somewhere else but i'm gonna repeat it. I SERIOUSLY think that when someone wants to publish a game with GS, it goes through the GS team first so they can make sure its not just crap or a rip off of another template. That way we'd have a WAY better reputation!
Do you have any idea at all how time consuming that would be for GS? Theres going to be a ton of problems with that that I won't even get into. Nevermind the fact if your looking for any updates on the GS software this idea would push everything wayyyy back..
For those buying templates, it sounds like you should read and understand carefully what the designer's intent is and simply not purchase those templates whose creator you disagree with. It is up to them and this would correct the market for these to meet the desires of the template customers.
>Do you have any idea at all how time consuming that would be for GS?
App approval seems to work for Apple and it ensures that iPhone games are of a certain standard. Given the number of Games created on Game Salad I don't think it would be that difficult to do.
I think this kind of copying of templates is bad for Game Salad's brand and has a negative effect on would-be developers. Firstly if customers see Game Salad as a place for copy-and-paste type games they will not trust the brand and all GS game sales will suffer.
As a developer I'd be extremely annoyed if people were to make templates of my game. I would hope that Game Salad would help me protect my intellectual property.
Perhaps GS should say that Full Templates of other games are not allowed and redirect the template makers into making tools that we can use in our games (transitions, level menus, etc.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
heathcc said: For those buying templates, it sounds like you should read and understand carefully what the designer's intent is and simply not purchase those templates whose creator you disagree with. It is up to them and this would correct the market for these to meet the desires of the template customers.
H
I think your missing the point of the discussion. the person who loaded the template as is. broke no rules or agreement. the template was sold with art and the creator of the template says the art is your to do with as you please.
So he broke no rules. the more important question is how can we sell a template without art and people still want it. because image that same template of darrens with no art and just colored boxes. it wouldn't look as flashy and less people would buy it because they would have no way of visualizing what could be done with it.
But You cant exactly justify the cost of creating art to demo the template and then not sell the art. so what right and whats wrong?
at this point it's really up to Darren if he wants to take action. It's his template and I'm sure he expected stuff like this would happen.
As far as the merits go, if you release a fully working template with non-watermarked artwork, you kinda have to expect someone is just going to release it.
Just show the movie with good graphics to display what the template is capable of and sell it with basic actors and maybe a couple decent Graphics to keep people a little intrigued.
sparkzilla said: >Do you have any idea at all how time consuming that would be for GS?
App approval seems to work for Apple and it ensures that iPhone games are of a certain standard. Given the number of Games created on Game Salad I don't think it would be that difficult to do.
Apple makes money off of the Apps that's why they have what I'm sure is a large amount of people checking apps daily. It's still taking time away from them focusing on GS and improving it.
Comments
What I'm saying is that those that want to just publish template games without any effort (not even changing the graphics!) are essentially making shovelware.
Software + Shovel(Sh*t / Toilet) = Shovelware
Ace
Of course, some rubbish games will become successful, whether due to the madness of crowds, canny marketing or alien mind rays, and unfortunately a few awesome ones will slip through the net, but the quality across the board keeps improving, and the means of finding apps that appeal to you grows due to the huge number of blogs and review sites keeping their eyes peeled for the diamonds in the dung. Just compare the quality of the top games on the app store from a couple of years ago to what's out there now.
What's most exciting is that the variety of game types on the iOS platforms is constantly growing, compared to the console market say, where genre diversity has pretty much stagnated - another dystopian near future FPS anyone?
First I think is bad to provide a Game Template with full artwork. By selling that art to a bunch of people you are guaranteeing that more than one will buy it for the art but only the first one will get to submit an original version.
Now menus and such are a bit different IMO. the menu art will not provide enough to cover an entire game. which forces the user to put effort in the art for the game still and if the menu art doesn't go with the game then you will prob find your self changing some of that too.
In my menu the Stacks Level Selection Template. the art is included but its art that can be used in more than one game without making it obvious its the same. and there is certainly not enough there to do an entire game but the art is good enough to be used if needed.
I haven't ever bought a template but I am using a free template on on game now except I have already looked at how it all worked and have changed nearly everything making it my own work. now the only thing left from the original is some HUD layout and the core game type. oh and some of the template art for place holders of course until some good new art is brought in. But thats the point in a template.
And while we're on the rant of selling full game templates it irks me even more to see a game that is currently on the app store, be offered up as a "template" I mean really? do you not think that people are going to buy it and if the art is not watermarked turn right around and upload it? other wise they will just swap out art files and submit.
LOL well I didn't want to get into this big of a rant so im out.
Aaron
___________________________________________________________________________________
GS BubbleBall Template HERE!!
Stacks Level Selection Template HERE!!
AppSolute Entertainment on Facebook
To be fair, I shouldn't have mentioned anything. But you'll find out soon enough. Giving the details is not my job.
QS
The concept is make money from volume. if you submit one really good app there is actually a chance that you will make little sales we'll pick a number say 100. that app may have taken a few months to create. Now shovelware you create 100 apps over a week or two and they really suck but they may function enough for apples approval so now you have 100 apps that may get 1-10 sales each before disappearing. so your two weeks of crap gained you 100-1000 sales when your two months of hard work gained you only 100.
Thats why you see so much of it.
Not sure if that would help,but it's a thought.
H
App approval seems to work for Apple and it ensures that iPhone games are of a certain standard. Given the number of Games created on Game Salad I don't think it would be that difficult to do.
I think this kind of copying of templates is bad for Game Salad's brand and has a negative effect on would-be developers. Firstly if customers see Game Salad as a place for copy-and-paste type games they will not trust the brand and all GS game sales will suffer.
As a developer I'd be extremely annoyed if people were to make templates of my game. I would hope that Game Salad would help me protect my intellectual property.
Perhaps GS should say that Full Templates of other games are not allowed and redirect the template makers into making tools that we can use in our games (transitions, level menus, etc.
So he broke no rules. the more important question is how can we sell a template without art and people still want it. because image that same template of darrens with no art and just colored boxes. it wouldn't look as flashy and less people would buy it because they would have no way of visualizing what could be done with it.
But You cant exactly justify the cost of creating art to demo the template and then not sell the art. so what right and whats wrong?
As far as the merits go, if you release a fully working template with non-watermarked artwork, you kinda have to expect someone is just going to release it.
Just show the movie with good graphics to display what the template is capable of and sell it with basic actors and maybe a couple decent Graphics to keep people a little intrigued.
Does Apple even bother testing free apps? Cause this one is broken...