the way i see it the majority of the people who come to gamesalad are first timers looking for a way to make a game without coding. Once they have made their success, they can afford to pay for coders etc with their next game or carry on with the gamesalad template on pro. But before that happens the majority can't afford the investment of $500 on a first publish without preliminary success. At which point they may go off and find alternatives.
Better, charge $200 -> more first timers are willing to take the pro plunge, and invest future titles with the gamesalad platform. Yes it is better to create a brain child game that generates enough revenue to reinvest but for a lot it won't happen and we won't see as many pro memberships
Having said that, the previous prices were changed because they didn't work. If it's working now GameSalad would know and would stick to it.
I guess it depends how much the average published game generates in revenue and they are working it on that... perhaps it either makes over $1000 or it doesn't make anything at all...something like that :P
mangaroo said: the way i see it the majority of the people who come to gamesalad are first timers looking for a way to make a game without coding. Once they have made their success, they can afford to pay for coders etc with their next game or carry on with the gamesalad template on pro. But before that happens the majority can't afford the investment of $500 on a first publish without preliminary success. At which point they may go off and find alternatives.
Which part of 'It's free to publish a game to the app store' didn't you get???
Sparky mentions the competition - which ALL, bar NONE, ask you to pay something up front before being able to publish.
the point was that if it was successful for them to consider purchasing the pro for $500 they would also consider going elsewhere and paying coders. But if it was priced more in accordance to the differences between the current free gamesalad and the pro gamesalad then even those without successful titles would consider it a justified investment.
Exactly you don't need it. It is a luxury. Why not make it more justifiable for the majority of developers here
edit: no, you were spot on the first time..
to be honest personally i dont mind, i expect to go pro once ive established enough sales and will factor in the price of pro as a percentage, but to me it makes more sense for gamesalad, but this is of course without knowing real sales figures for the average gs game..
mangaroo said: Exactly you don't need it. It is a luxury. Why not make it more justifiable for the majority of developers here
edit: no, you were spot on the first time..
to be honest personally i dont mind, i expect to go once ive established enough sales and will factor in the price of pro as a percentage, but to me it makes more sense for gamesalad, but this is of course without knowing real sales figures for the average gs game..
its already justifiable. 500 dollars is cheap. if you can't afford it you dont need it, i dont get whats so hard about that.
quantumsheep said: If I got it spot on the first time, how have I 'lost it', and, apparently, the ability to read???
Yeah i take that back, your reply of
"Which part of 'It's free to publish a game to the app store' didn't you get???"
Maybe it was the third question mark that made me leave the comment :P but it also wasn't my point...i was talking economics for gamesalad...not complaining of the cost.
mangaroo said: Yeah i take that back, your reply of
"Which part of 'It's free to publish a game to the app store' didn't you get???"
Maybe it was the third question mark that made me leave the comment :P but it also wasn't my point...i was talking economics for gamesalad...not complaining of the cost.
All i keep hearing is Pro is too expensive compared to the competition on the market! GameSalad's niche is the drag and drop no coding. No other software (to the best of my knowledge) does this in the way GS does for IOS.
Therefore, i cant compared.
What i can compare and weigh up is the following;
Can i make what i want with the GameSalad engine? - Yes. Do i need to learn to code? - No .... Really? Wow. And thats going to make it soo much quicker as well to make my games? - Yes. How much will it cost me? Its FREE. Is that just to trial? - No, you can fully publish too Web, Mac and iPhone/Touch.
Sign me up!
Renewal Time .... Question Time;
Is GameSalad still capable of what i want from it? - Yes. Are my games now better than they were? - Yes. Am i doing Ok from the appstore? - Yes. Can i now take this more seriously and try to build my brand? - Yes, purchase Pro for Custom Splash. Anything else i can do with Pro? iAds, URL forwarding and soon to be GameCenter leaderboards. Do I need these features? Not really the features, it wont make my gamePLAY any better, its something else i can stick in the description, ultimately though, if my games crap its not going to sell. I do want the custom splash screen though badly! All sounds great about Pro, whats the cost? - $500. Bargain!!! Have i made enough from the appstore in my 1st year to pay for Pro? - Yes, 10x over.
I'll have me some Pro then!
These are the questions you should be asking yourself before committing to the subscription. If you dont need it or cant afford it, you dont have it, you still have an AMAZING product and service there for free which is still capable of making you lots of money!
I mean come on guys, for me, to have GS the way it is with 'Drag and Drop No Coding', 'Splash Screen' 'Free Publishing' and 'No Royalties' to pay bar Apple is worth the $500 alone!
Clothes, over pricing? Cars, surely you think they should be a bit cheaper?
The point is, the fee is set by the GameSalad, we're not at a carboot, its not about haggling, the price is what it is, if its too much, just dont buy it, if its too much but you really want it like many of my purchases, buy it because you want it and if you think its a fair price, buy it!
I got more accomplished in a week with GS than I did in a month with Corona.
I'm a pretty good web programmer and can code database websites blindfolded, but for some reason when it comes to games, being able to visually see what I'm doing while I'm doing it makes all the difference in the world for me.
firemaplegames said: I think Pro should be $113.25
Since that is cheaper.
Pro should be 0.99c (lol)
In all seriousness, if I had the 12hrs+ that Tshirbooth has to dedicate to his games, the graphic talent of Firemaplegames and the amazing writing skills that Quantumsheep has, I bet I could have a shot at a great game.
If you noticed in my example, I never mentioned an SDK, it's all about the love, time, passion and dedication you put into your games that makes it successful...and perhaps the most important ingredient, having fun while building games because your end product will show and your customers will notice.
Seems like GS will keep getting better through time and if you really want to make a living out of building games, you have to invest to get something back, whether be time or money.
sparkzilla said: QS: Take your own advice and don't make personal attacks.
Sparks.
Im completely new at GS. My first app made enough money in 4-5 days to pay for Pro. I didnt spit it out asap. I took criticism from my peers here at the forums and went back to the drawing board and improved upon it until it was polished and deemed ready. I can make a basic app. And make enough in 5 days to pay for pro. Im sure all these people complaining about "NEEDING" pro to make profit. Could take a lil time and effort with the free version. And produce 1-3 apps that with in a month that would pay for pro or help reduce the cost of the purchase of pro. Its not difficult. Be patient... take your time. People want pro for its features. its not the features in Pro that made some of the best here the money they are making now. Its not the URL linking or GS splash removal or Iads options that made people go " oh look at this Zombie Drop or Star Daze or Mini Canon or all the games Firemaple made and many others here. Its the polished product they worked so hard to make. Take the free version.. work hard..... polish your game.. and let your hard work pay for your Pro. This whining and business planning and number crunching has got to stop. this is stupid. Let GS decide what the best PR and Buisness strategy is for GS. They see their ledgers.. they can crunch their own numbers. They know whats best. Im pretty sure the people who gave them the 6.1 Million didnt just give it to them on a whim.
@mangaroo Personally, I don't want to hire coders to do something if I had enough money. I like doing things myself, it's cheaper, and there is less to deal with... In the exception that there is something that I can't accomplish with the tools I can use.
@sparkzilla Please tell me how you have number of profitable businesses that didn't have any investment costs over $500. In fact, tell me one that cost only $100.
Also, to all, how many people that only have free version have made a pretty respectable amount of money for someone using free tools?
$500 would be expensive for an entry price... But not for an upgrade from an extremely powerful free tool.
Metro. I made 500 in 5 days. With free version. And it wasnt even a game. If I can do it with my first app in 5 days. IM sure alot of serious people can do it in 1 month.
Jeffnichols said: Metro. I made 500 in 5 days. With free version. And it wasnt even a game. If I can do it with my first app in 5 days. IM sure alot of serious people can do it in 1 month.
Yes, serious people, with design chops,that know how to get something ready for primetime.
$500 is a great price for serious developers. Back when Pro cost $2000, I couldn't justify a switch from learning Objective-C to investing in GameSalad for their Pro Features. At $500 it's absolutely fair, especially since the GS splash is gone now, and we have a good idea as to what is coming in the future from the Roadmap.
It's easy to forget what things would be like without GameSalad around. You'd have to learn SOME coding anywhere else. You'd have to pay SOMETHING to get your app on the market (aside from Apple's mandatory fees) and you'd be spending 2 - 10 times the amount of hours to complete your project, with the potential for a lot more bugs to deal with.
GameSalad exists because it's a business. Businesses exist to make money. Money exists because it standardizes units for barter and trade which allows for massive growth of an economy. The economy exists because we like to eat, drink, live, and own things.
The world is lucky that GameSalad has ANYTHING free to offer. It's an incredibly powerful program in the right hands, and it's getting better and better. $500 a year is beautiful for a pro account and it's going to get more beautiful as more Pro features are added.
This is a silly debate, considering there is a perfectly reasonable free version.
$500 is in line with almost all other professional level design software. Photoshop etc are similarly priced. Think this is too expensive? Take a look at the Unity pricing.
Comparing GameSalad's pricing to something like Corona isn't fair nor accurate. Corona right now is just an SDK. GameSalad is that but ALSO a design tool. To me it makes sense that it costs $500, as a lot of design software runs around that.
wow. I read through this during lunch and lots of good points.
Here's my take on it.
Money is what you pay, value is what you get.
For me, $500 is a fantastic price and for others it's way too much. It really depends on what part of the value scale you hold GS to be. The $$$ argument can be nebulous as a clearly defined point of debate or argument has not been set.
You know what's expensive? Try learning Objective-C by taking a 2 day training course. When I use to be a trainer, 1 day would set you back $1250 for 6 hours of training. That being said, people signed up as they saw the value for their particular situation.
The free version is so robust, I don't see the point of debating the pro pricing. Pro will not allow you to build better games, so build you game, make money and when you feel that you are a pro and making money - buy pro.
Comments
Better, charge $200 -> more first timers are willing to take the pro plunge, and invest future titles with the gamesalad platform. Yes it is better to create a brain child game that generates enough revenue to reinvest but for a lot it won't happen and we won't see as many pro memberships
Having said that, the previous prices were changed because they didn't work. If it's working now GameSalad would know and would stick to it.
I guess it depends how much the average published game generates in revenue and they are working it on that... perhaps it either makes over $1000 or it doesn't make anything at all...something like that :P
Sparky mentions the competition - which ALL, bar NONE, ask you to pay something up front before being able to publish.
Seriously, this is getting silly!
QS :O
QS
the point was that if it was successful for them to consider purchasing the pro for $500 they would also consider going elsewhere and paying coders. But if it was priced more in accordance to the differences between the current free gamesalad and the pro gamesalad then even those without successful titles would consider it a justified investment.
But BEFORE that happens, $500 is an investment they can't afford.
But you don't NEED $500 to publish to the app store and make the first part of your argument true. Because it's FREE.
How's that?
QS
EDIT: And now, having read your expansion of your point, it seems you're saying that $500 is too much because you could get a coder to do it?
Good luck getting a coder to make just ONE game for you for $500 - and then there's STILL no guarantee you'll make that money back.
GameSalad is FREE. There's NO risk, and NO investment up front.
I don't get why people aren't getting that!
QS
edit: no, you were spot on the first time..
to be honest personally i dont mind, i expect to go pro once ive established enough sales and will factor in the price of pro as a percentage, but to me it makes more sense for gamesalad, but this is of course without knowing real sales figures for the average gs game..
"Which part of 'It's free to publish a game to the app store' didn't you get???"
Maybe it was the third question mark that made me leave the comment :P but it also wasn't my point...i was talking economics for gamesalad...not complaining of the cost.
GameSalad's niche is the drag and drop no coding.
No other software (to the best of my knowledge) does this in the way GS does for IOS.
Therefore, i cant compared.
What i can compare and weigh up is the following;
Can i make what i want with the GameSalad engine? - Yes.
Do i need to learn to code? - No .... Really? Wow.
And thats going to make it soo much quicker as well to make my games? - Yes.
How much will it cost me? Its FREE.
Is that just to trial? - No, you can fully publish too Web, Mac and iPhone/Touch.
Sign me up!
Renewal Time .... Question Time;
Is GameSalad still capable of what i want from it? - Yes.
Are my games now better than they were? - Yes.
Am i doing Ok from the appstore? - Yes.
Can i now take this more seriously and try to build my brand? - Yes, purchase Pro for Custom Splash.
Anything else i can do with Pro? iAds, URL forwarding and soon to be GameCenter leaderboards.
Do I need these features? Not really the features, it wont make my gamePLAY any better, its something else i can stick in the description, ultimately though, if my games crap its not going to sell. I do want the custom splash screen though badly!
All sounds great about Pro, whats the cost? - $500.
Bargain!!!
Have i made enough from the appstore in my 1st year to pay for Pro? - Yes, 10x over.
I'll have me some Pro then!
These are the questions you should be asking yourself before committing to the subscription. If you dont need it or cant afford it, you dont have it, you still have an AMAZING product and service there for free which is still capable of making you lots of money!
I mean come on guys, for me, to have GS the way it is with 'Drag and Drop No Coding', 'Splash Screen' 'Free Publishing' and 'No Royalties' to pay bar Apple is worth the $500 alone!
Clothes, over pricing?
Cars, surely you think they should be a bit cheaper?
The point is, the fee is set by the GameSalad, we're not at a carboot, its not about haggling, the price is what it is, if its too much, just dont buy it, if its too much but you really want it like many of my purchases, buy it because you want it and if you think its a fair price, buy it!
Simples
I'm a pretty good web programmer and can code database websites blindfolded, but for some reason when it comes to games, being able to visually see what I'm doing while I'm doing it makes all the difference in the world for me.
There is nothing wrong with a $500 pro price tag.
In all seriousness, if I had the 12hrs+ that Tshirbooth has to dedicate to his games, the graphic talent of Firemaplegames and the amazing writing skills that Quantumsheep has, I bet I could have a shot at a great game.
If you noticed in my example, I never mentioned an SDK, it's all about the love, time, passion and dedication you put into your games that makes it successful...and perhaps the most important ingredient, having fun while building games because your end product will show and your customers will notice.
Seems like GS will keep getting better through time and if you really want to make a living out of building games, you have to invest to get something back, whether be time or money.
All I"m saying is that $500 is better than $2000
RD
Im completely new at GS. My first app made enough money in 4-5 days to pay for Pro. I didnt spit it out asap. I took criticism from my peers here at the forums and went back to the drawing board and improved upon it until it was polished and deemed ready. I can make a basic app. And make enough in 5 days to pay for pro. Im sure all these people complaining about "NEEDING" pro to make profit. Could take a lil time and effort with the free version. And produce 1-3 apps that with in a month that would pay for pro or help reduce the cost of the purchase of pro. Its not difficult. Be patient... take your time. People want pro for its features. its not the features in Pro that made some of the best here the money they are making now. Its not the URL linking or GS splash removal or Iads options that made people go " oh look at this Zombie Drop or Star Daze or Mini Canon or all the games Firemaple made and many others here. Its the polished product they worked so hard to make. Take the free version.. work hard..... polish your game.. and let your hard work pay for your Pro. This whining and business planning and number crunching has got to stop. this is stupid. Let GS decide what the best PR and Buisness strategy is for GS. They see their ledgers.. they can crunch their own numbers. They know whats best. Im pretty sure the people who gave them the 6.1 Million didnt just give it to them on a whim.
@sparkzilla Please tell me how you have number of profitable businesses that didn't have any investment costs over $500. In fact, tell me one that cost only $100.
Also, to all, how many people that only have free version have made a pretty respectable amount of money for someone using free tools?
$500 would be expensive for an entry price... But not for an upgrade from an extremely powerful free tool.
Did you upgrade to Pro yet?
It's easy to forget what things would be like without GameSalad around. You'd have to learn SOME coding anywhere else. You'd have to pay SOMETHING to get your app on the market (aside from Apple's mandatory fees) and you'd be spending 2 - 10 times the amount of hours to complete your project, with the potential for a lot more bugs to deal with.
GameSalad exists because it's a business. Businesses exist to make money. Money exists because it standardizes units for barter and trade which allows for massive growth of an economy. The economy exists because we like to eat, drink, live, and own things.
The world is lucky that GameSalad has ANYTHING free to offer. It's an incredibly powerful program in the right hands, and it's getting better and better. $500 a year is beautiful for a pro account and it's going to get more beautiful as more Pro features are added.
$500 is in line with almost all other professional level design software. Photoshop etc are similarly priced. Think this is too expensive? Take a look at the Unity pricing.
Comparing GameSalad's pricing to something like Corona isn't fair nor accurate. Corona right now is just an SDK. GameSalad is that but ALSO a design tool. To me it makes sense that it costs $500, as a lot of design software runs around that.
Here's my take on it.
Money is what you pay, value is what you get.
For me, $500 is a fantastic price and for others it's way too much. It really depends on what part of the value scale you hold GS to be. The $$$ argument can be nebulous as a clearly defined point of debate or argument has not been set.
You know what's expensive? Try learning Objective-C by taking a 2 day training course. When I use to be a trainer, 1 day would set you back $1250 for 6 hours of training. That being said, people signed up as they saw the value for their particular situation.