No Code, Ever !
Psmith
Member Posts: 14
I, for one, never want to have to write a single line of code (or a phrase of code), ever. Even looking at code makes my stomach hurt. So, because of this I feel compelled to point out one issue I have with GameSalad and its "syntax" for lack of a non-coding-based word:
In my very first exposure to "How to Make an iPhone app start to finish" using GameSalad, what do I see . . . CODE !!! Not only so, but code that is not really explained - why are things written this way, what, (point by point) does each part of the code do?) Not only am I to see and implement CODE (four letter word) without understanding it, but I am asked to "trust" the instructor - that later on, it will all make sense. Here is the video reference (I think it is in episode 4 or 5):
http://www.youtube.com/user/gendaigames#p/u/3/gbqsZ-yLaCg
When "Rules/Attributes/Behaviours" are used and the names of things are accessed from the various "drop down menus" - what you really have access to are the guts of the CODE, itself. I know this because, immediately, you are introduced to the use of "Dot Syntax" names and functions.
Now, without some kind of introduction to Dot Syntax - what it is, why it is, what it does - essentially all of the non-CODING users you are trying to attract to GameSalad are immediately bewildered and, quite possibly, alienated.
What you are left with, as far as a cultivated audience, is the same bunch of people who have the tenacity to stick to learning any programming language - who can stick with it until they understand things, simply by the repetitive exposure of "trial-and-error" seeing and testing. The "monkey see, monkey do" approach, so popular among those, of all sorts, who teach programming.
Now, with regards to the overall presentation of this video series in question - it is excellent, by any standard. The presenter does not, at any point later in the series, go back and explain why those several lines of CODE now make total sense. (I kept waiting for this moment).
I've watched those segments of this video training several times over - hoping to become better enlightened regarding the "whys" of these lines of code - but, I'm afraid, it fails to impress the brain. I'm sure I could remember the position of the reference - maybe even the syntax - but I will only be copying and pasting something that I should have a thorough understanding of before proceeding.
So, though GameSalad offers a more streamlined approach to CODING - one must still understand CODE to truly understand GameSalad. Let's not pretend we are working in a CODE-FREE environment.
What I suggest is that a brief series of GameSalad programming concepts be presented, (going line by line, word by word, dot by dot), explaining thoroughly all of these concepts in a way that will not bewilder or alienate those drawn to this programming environment - thus capturing the audience that the company initially intended to attract.
Psmith
In my very first exposure to "How to Make an iPhone app start to finish" using GameSalad, what do I see . . . CODE !!! Not only so, but code that is not really explained - why are things written this way, what, (point by point) does each part of the code do?) Not only am I to see and implement CODE (four letter word) without understanding it, but I am asked to "trust" the instructor - that later on, it will all make sense. Here is the video reference (I think it is in episode 4 or 5):
http://www.youtube.com/user/gendaigames#p/u/3/gbqsZ-yLaCg
When "Rules/Attributes/Behaviours" are used and the names of things are accessed from the various "drop down menus" - what you really have access to are the guts of the CODE, itself. I know this because, immediately, you are introduced to the use of "Dot Syntax" names and functions.
Now, without some kind of introduction to Dot Syntax - what it is, why it is, what it does - essentially all of the non-CODING users you are trying to attract to GameSalad are immediately bewildered and, quite possibly, alienated.
What you are left with, as far as a cultivated audience, is the same bunch of people who have the tenacity to stick to learning any programming language - who can stick with it until they understand things, simply by the repetitive exposure of "trial-and-error" seeing and testing. The "monkey see, monkey do" approach, so popular among those, of all sorts, who teach programming.
Now, with regards to the overall presentation of this video series in question - it is excellent, by any standard. The presenter does not, at any point later in the series, go back and explain why those several lines of CODE now make total sense. (I kept waiting for this moment).
I've watched those segments of this video training several times over - hoping to become better enlightened regarding the "whys" of these lines of code - but, I'm afraid, it fails to impress the brain. I'm sure I could remember the position of the reference - maybe even the syntax - but I will only be copying and pasting something that I should have a thorough understanding of before proceeding.
So, though GameSalad offers a more streamlined approach to CODING - one must still understand CODE to truly understand GameSalad. Let's not pretend we are working in a CODE-FREE environment.
What I suggest is that a brief series of GameSalad programming concepts be presented, (going line by line, word by word, dot by dot), explaining thoroughly all of these concepts in a way that will not bewilder or alienate those drawn to this programming environment - thus capturing the audience that the company initially intended to attract.
Psmith
Comments
Psmith
When Gamesalad says no coding they mean no writing in some programming language, not that everything is pre-programmed.
Asymptoteell
file:///Users/macuser/Documents/picture.psd
In gamesalad its just about the same thing but they are using "." instead of "/"
Gamesalad is a mix of common sense and math, not coding. Lol, right. Gamesalad isn't a toy, its legit. If you want to make money with something you have to work hard at it, cant use other peoples artwork, and implement your own idea.
http://itunes.apple.com/app/an-unofficial-gamesalad-textbook/id409726843
If you look at every prepackaged "Rule/Attribute/Behaviour", what you see are, in every sense of the word, lines of CODE. Yes, lines of code are lines of programming - the words are synonymous.
Though programming a game may get no easier than the methods presented by GameSalad, every user will benefit from understanding the actual CODE that they are assembling (and writing) from the prepackaged "Rules/Attributes/Behaviours".
CODE is an abbreviated way of writing a set of instructions. What these words, phrases and sentences mean - and how, and in what order they are written is defined as syntax. GameSalad uses syntax - CODING syntax, to express its prepackaged set of instructions.
To claim that GameSalad requires nobody to "write" a single line of code does not mean that a user can escape from understanding what has been written for them.
There is a better way to dispense these techniques and this particular syntax than by the traditional "monkey see, monkey do" instructional technique.
Psmith
http://www.youtube.com/user/GameSaladCookbook
Heres the link, I want you to watch every video from oldest to newest. It explains EVERYTHING.
wait for it...
wait for it...
...ENGLISH!
Photics' book sounds very good, that it explains these aspects to coding novices (though I haven't read it myself though).
Does your book go into the "when/whys and wherefores" of GameSalad's use of syntax? Or, is it a "learn by example" kind of textbook?
Psmith
The is absolutely no coding in GS. We call it coding to make a ourselves feel like "real" developers.
What you are referring to as CODE, From what I can tell from your ridiculously long rant, is called math. GS never said you wont need to understand or learn some MATH.
And edit allows you to edit your post and Quote places a copy of your post at the bottom so you can quote it. It's two different links.
Photic's Book is great as well. but you will have to actually be open to learning instead of having iOS game development handed to you for free.
You signed up all of 3 hours ago so how about you take the time to learn the software a little before coming out screaming about how you were lied to and duped into downloading free software.
@Gyro. No loss of a friend here.
It may help you fill in the blanks over time. The advantage I see that GS has is not the coding, is the speed you can work to get your products out faster, that said there is a ton of issues within the way you have trick or do steps to get the desired results that you would not have to do with other software.
My advice, dive in and work it - learn the basics and build off it.
One last word, use the forums here and from other sites, look at real code and break it down in your head about what happens behind the scenes. and you will soon see its fundamentally the same.
Thanks
Am I the only one who hope GameSalad introduce a (optionnal) coding/scripting language? Seriously Drag and Drop can be really annoying and limited at times.
http://www.deepblueapps.com/Deep_Blue_Ideas_Ltd./Tools_in_Development.html
I agree about the dragging Behaviours can get a bit much sometimes; it'd be nice option, to help a bit, to be able to double click a Behavior, automatically appearing in the Rules, do you reckon?
A visual/code toggle that kapser mentions would be interesting but could cause a lot of broken apps where people didn't know what they were doing!
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GameSalads original plan was to allow pro members top export their projects to xcode for further customizing. They have since left that plan but it would have really solved a lot of the calls for this feature and that feature if you had the ability to code in the extras after you where done.
That will be awesome!
GameSalad uses Dot Syntax for describing its various methods and functions. One user has stated that Dot Syntax merely indicates file structure (a file, in a folder, inside another folder, etc.) This is not entirely true, nor does this analogy explain the way GameSalad uses Dot Syntax.
Would any experienced programmers care to comment or more fully explain GameSalad's specific use of Dot Syntax?
When a Rule/Attribute/Behaviour is "written out" across the screen, often the contents of Dot Syntax elements obtained through drop down menus is obscured due to lack of horizontal space. Is there a way to expand an entire Rule or Attribute or Behaviour so that it can be read - (just as though it were an English sentence?)
Since the elements found in Rules/Attributes/Behaviours are what is usually listed in some form of SDK (and indicate internal functions and methods of GameSalad), where would I find such a list?
Psmith
Hope that helps.
:-)
Thank you, Gyroscope. I'm glad you agree with my basic premise.
But, that quote, above, confuses me for the following reasons:
I don't really know what you mean by the terms "Browser" and an "Editor", since there are no discreet areas labeled thus.
I don't know where the "Expression Editor" is, nor what it does, or how to use it.
I'm not sure what you mean by the phrase "to concatenate elements".
Thanks again,
Psmith
If you click on the "e" symbol, you'll get the Expression Editor.
Use of both of these will be in the Support/Help files.
"Concatenate" sheesh, sorry, a programming word; it just means to join together. You'd use it in the Display Text Behavior for instance, to join an attribute with some text (text is known as strings in programming, for interest). You would actually type these in as three full stops/periods from your keyboard. Use of Display Text Behaviors are also in the Help files.
:-)